Socrates is a man who yearns to make his mind stronger than his body by discounting material things and order to reach a new level of thinking. Socrates discounts typical learning environments and relies on the physical earth to be his teacher. There is ambiguity in determining Socrates as wholly ‘good’ or ‘bad.’ I think rather than being motivated by simply good or bad, Socrates just wants to experience a new realm of thinking and knows that when he wins an argument, for either just or unjust reasons, he has outthought his competitor. Socrates very much encourages his students to pull imaginative thoughts and random facts together to create an answer or strategy from the world around them. There are no physical limits in the mind of Socrates. This is apparent in lines 749-758. As Socrates prods Strepsiades to think more deeply about his loan predicament, Strepsiades suggests buying a Thessalian witch to catch a moon in a round feather box. Without the moon morning will never come and Strepsiades will never have to payback his loans. Although this suggestion is ridiculous, Socrates encourages Strepsiades with a, “Well done!” Socrates is all about thinking out of the box.
Later in Clouds, Just and Unjust have a lengthy conversation in which they describe themselves. Just summarizes his character of respect and lawfulness, while Unjust associates himself with the desires of the flesh and discounting shame and gods. Based on the first impressions and introduction to Socrates, he is identified with Unjust. Socrates does not believe in gods, except Clouds, and finds no shame in teaching people with illegal motives (Strepsiades and Pheidippides). Socrates is not wasting his life, just using it for unjust purposes (unjust based on the standards of this civilization). Socrates is a bad person because he willingly deceives people and persuades them for his own personal delight. Socrates is smitten with the things that his savvy tongue brings him, but finds most pride in his mastery of speech and persuasion. However, Socrates is a good person because he teaches the art of language on behalf of other’s needs. Strepsiades comes to Socrates pleading for help, and after much frustration resolves to help via Pheidippides).
I admire the humorous and imaginative twists of Socrates’ thinking, but he is wasting his time. Intellectual thinking should be valued in companion to seeking knowledge. Socrates and the other Thinkers spend their time observing the world, which many times seems purposeless. I admire Socrates’ desire to approach language in a way different from all others, but do not admire his application of this mastery for unjust causes. Socrates taught Pheidippides how to speak unjustly so that Pheidippides could free his father from debt. Encouraging disobeying the laws is not exactly a “good” trade to teach, but I admire that Socrates challenged his students to think deeply about the law and life.
Aristophanes presents Socrates as a free-spirited thinker, open to thoughtful humor and experiencing life in a new way. Intelligence is usually correlated with aristocracy. Aristophanes uses Socrates’ character to introduce a new type of intelligence and demonstrate the scary reality that, in this life at least, bad may prevail over good (or in this case unjust over just). Besides the issue of morality, Aristophanes presents Socrates to introduce the idea of imaginative thinking. Many aspects of life can be combined to reach a number of solutions. There is never one definitive solution to any given problem. Socrates represents a revolutionary style of thinking, but also what happens to this style of thinking. After Strepsiades is visited by the gods he realizes that Socrates was wrong, gods are real, and is ashamed of thinking otherwise. Strepsiades sets the thinkery aflame and Socrates screams, “I’ll be choked!” while gasping for air through the flames. Strepsiades dashes after Socrates and his students. Socrates’ style of thinking, along with Socrates, is in disagreeance with the laws of society. Strepsiades, who represents just thinking as the majority, attempts to eliminate the minority unjust thinkers. The majority rules.
Later in Clouds, Just and Unjust have a lengthy conversation in which they describe themselves. Just summarizes his character of respect and lawfulness, while Unjust associates himself with the desires of the flesh and discounting shame and gods. Based on the first impressions and introduction to Socrates, he is identified with Unjust. Socrates does not believe in gods, except Clouds, and finds no shame in teaching people with illegal motives (Strepsiades and Pheidippides). Socrates is not wasting his life, just using it for unjust purposes (unjust based on the standards of this civilization). Socrates is a bad person because he willingly deceives people and persuades them for his own personal delight. Socrates is smitten with the things that his savvy tongue brings him, but finds most pride in his mastery of speech and persuasion. However, Socrates is a good person because he teaches the art of language on behalf of other’s needs. Strepsiades comes to Socrates pleading for help, and after much frustration resolves to help via Pheidippides).
I admire the humorous and imaginative twists of Socrates’ thinking, but he is wasting his time. Intellectual thinking should be valued in companion to seeking knowledge. Socrates and the other Thinkers spend their time observing the world, which many times seems purposeless. I admire Socrates’ desire to approach language in a way different from all others, but do not admire his application of this mastery for unjust causes. Socrates taught Pheidippides how to speak unjustly so that Pheidippides could free his father from debt. Encouraging disobeying the laws is not exactly a “good” trade to teach, but I admire that Socrates challenged his students to think deeply about the law and life.
Aristophanes presents Socrates as a free-spirited thinker, open to thoughtful humor and experiencing life in a new way. Intelligence is usually correlated with aristocracy. Aristophanes uses Socrates’ character to introduce a new type of intelligence and demonstrate the scary reality that, in this life at least, bad may prevail over good (or in this case unjust over just). Besides the issue of morality, Aristophanes presents Socrates to introduce the idea of imaginative thinking. Many aspects of life can be combined to reach a number of solutions. There is never one definitive solution to any given problem. Socrates represents a revolutionary style of thinking, but also what happens to this style of thinking. After Strepsiades is visited by the gods he realizes that Socrates was wrong, gods are real, and is ashamed of thinking otherwise. Strepsiades sets the thinkery aflame and Socrates screams, “I’ll be choked!” while gasping for air through the flames. Strepsiades dashes after Socrates and his students. Socrates’ style of thinking, along with Socrates, is in disagreeance with the laws of society. Strepsiades, who represents just thinking as the majority, attempts to eliminate the minority unjust thinkers. The majority rules.
I agree! There are times in the story where it seems as though Socrates takes thinking outside of the box to a whole new level, such as the idea of buying a Thessalian witch. Although there are more practical solutions, Socrates is motivated to be the most intelligent and creative thinker, and doesn’t seem to notice how foolish his or his students ideas may be at times. I also agree that Socrates seems to be using (not wasting) his life on matters that are against the teachings of his time. The fact that he openly shows disbelief in the Gods of his time shows this. Although he is not wasting his time, he could be using it much more productively. The fact that Socrates is spending his time observing the world shows that he is seeking knowledge, but the knowledge he seeks is very unnecessary in society. Also, your point that Socrates displays actions giving him both positive and negative characteristics hit the spot! I felt the same way while reading the story, it seemed as though he fell into neither category.
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