Thursday, February 5, 2009
Socrates' Other Side
Aristophanes’ Clouds depicts Socrates as a man who negatively influences those around him and aids to the deterioration of society through leadership. Aristophanes first introduces Socrates at a thinkery at which Socrates presides. This first view imparted was not laced with the sarcasm that became predominant later, but instead just a few comments are made that most would consider inappropriate (potty language). These comments foreshadow the expression of distaste that Aristophanes has for Socrates and his thought processes. Socrates did indeed offer many ideas that were out of the academic norm in his time period, but Aristophanes renders him as a man who pries the beliefs from the multitudes instead of providing alternatives. Socrates takes no time to turn down Strepsiades’ beliefs in the gods with unfounded logic. This is Aristophanes’ way of conveying the idea that Socrates warped the minds of multitudes through clever language that replaced true logic. After all, his thinkery was the go to place to learn such deceit. Strepsiades is easily manipulated by Socrates and continues to comment throughout the story that Vortex overthrew Zeus. His insistence on something he merely misunderstood parallels what Aristophanes believes people take away from Socrates works in that they often do not grasp the bigger picture and get caught up in details. Socrates approach entails a big picture focus in that his “weaker” speech provokes the stronger speaker to frustration due to the removal of focus to the facets of the argument. This approach is sought after by Strepsiades as more important than the stronger speech which relies on logic based on details. Strepsiades asks Socrates to teach Pheidippides the weaker and more deceiving speech if he only has time for one. This yearning for deceit is very immoral and is noted by Aristophanes to be a poor decision that negatively influences society. He notes that Socrates has the potential to guide the masses from developing honest and founded arguments and worries. Humanity is constantly searching for a faster or easier way to complete tasks, and shortcuts such as fraudulent speech could lead society to ruin regardless how clever. Through this position, one can see that Aristophanes deems Socrates methods not only useless, but also potentially harmful. From all my readings on Socrates, I recall no viewpoints oriented as Aristophanes is. His critical analysis is very interesting in that he doesn’t allow Socrates a handicap for the limited scientific knowledge from which he could draw from. He also considers Socrates’ ideas as invalid from the start and downplays his ability to mold the minds of his audience. Aristophanes view of Socrates is similar to Socrates’ out of the ordinary philosophical views. Language is powerful enough to guide masses without any basis whatsoever and without previous knowledge of Socrates, I would have thought him to be a insolent thinker—all due to Aristophanes utilization of humor and clever words.
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Those were really good points! I never really looked at Socrates as a manipulator, but more as a pitiful, lost man. However, his views impacted many people. Speech is such a powerful tool, and you pointed out the perks of unjust speech. What people don’t see are the disastrous effects unjust speech has on society. Unjust speech can single handedly plunge a whole society into chaos. I can’t even imagine how much power Socrates had over the masses, if he was able to pry established beliefs from so many. Socrates was one dangerous man! I agree with everything you said, even the potty language comment.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Matt. You had some really good points. I hadn't really taken the time to wonder where exactly Arisophanes' mistrust in philosophy had come from but his view of Socrates as manipulator certainly explains that. Socrates had "warped the minds of multitudes through clever language that replaced true logic" in Aristophanes view. Speech really is a powerful tool and unjust speech is certainly a problem, as proven by Strepsiades when he takes Socrates' lesson on the clouds to mean that the clouds were really a group of new gods.
ReplyDeleteThere were some very good points in this post that I had not considered when I first read the play. Socrates does seem to be portrayed as a person who is able to manipulate many people out of even their strongest beliefs. This makes sense because Socrates was a very smart and very powerful man. However, his views were not always in the right, and he seems to be able to lead many astray from solid beliefs towards less logical ones by using counter arguments that just lead people to forget facts that they have just presented in their own argument. I agree that this ability does make Socrates a very dangerous man due to the power that holds in his counter arguments.
ReplyDeletewith some of your points, I completely agree with you, however, you make it a point to say that Socrates and his views are completely misguided. On this I must dissagree with you. Perhaps for the period in which the man lived, he may have been thought of as misguided, but in today's society, he is considered one of the greatest minds in human history. One could also compare him with Darwin, in that, at the time his book was published, he was seen in the same light, but now he is said to me the modern father of sience and biology. your point about Socrates manipulating the mindes of his students is very well put, I had never thought of it that way before. If you think about it, most teachers (except Dr Null) attempt to manipulate the minds of their students in hopes of the students retaning the information taught. Now I would not call Socrates a dangerous man per-se, but then again it is all in the eyes of the beholder. One could argue though, that some of the mans actions may carry some destructive undertones, but destructive for who?
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